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	<title>Comments on: Second Life Sweatshop: A Pool of Cheap Labour?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/</link>
	<description>Social Media and Virtual Worlds Commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 02:46:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Peter Stindberg</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5368</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stindberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5368</guid>
		<description>Well, Opensource, in fact I try to deliver top quality. That is why I work - whenever possible - with people who are RL-translators or equally/similarly  qualified. 

They are aware of course of the price difference for basically the same work. However they chose to work for me in SL because inside the SL economy, the fees I pay make sense. A translator might earn for example 2500 L$ on a translation - that is two weeks rent on a parcel, or a new skin, or a new outfit and new hair. And again, this is the reason why I refuse without exception all pure RL jobs. They would indeed erode the pricing structure.

@Prad, I wonder what other work could be outsourced to SL at all? I mean in RL nobody needs LSL scripters or escorts or hosts...

And all the time I wonder if I know the guy who prompted your post. I am not exactly difficult to find, and I have usually once per quarter someone asking for RL jobs...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Opensource, in fact I try to deliver top quality. That is why I work &#8211; whenever possible &#8211; with people who are RL-translators or equally/similarly  qualified. </p>
<p>They are aware of course of the price difference for basically the same work. However they chose to work for me in SL because inside the SL economy, the fees I pay make sense. A translator might earn for example 2500 L$ on a translation &#8211; that is two weeks rent on a parcel, or a new skin, or a new outfit and new hair. And again, this is the reason why I refuse without exception all pure RL jobs. They would indeed erode the pricing structure.</p>
<p>@Prad, I wonder what other work could be outsourced to SL at all? I mean in RL nobody needs LSL scripters or escorts or hosts&#8230;</p>
<p>And all the time I wonder if I know the guy who prompted your post. I am not exactly difficult to find, and I have usually once per quarter someone asking for RL jobs&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Prad Prathivi</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5364</link>
		<dc:creator>Prad Prathivi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5364</guid>
		<description>Actually you make a really good point - it&#039;s unfair to liken it to a sweatshop for the reasons you state. The working conditions aren&#039;t comparable, and there isn&#039;t the same reliance on the SL&#039;s payment as being a primary source of income (I&#039;d hope).

That said, it still raises a lot of questions regarding ethics of businesses, and how open to being exploited the residents of Second Life are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually you make a really good point &#8211; it&#8217;s unfair to liken it to a sweatshop for the reasons you state. The working conditions aren&#8217;t comparable, and there isn&#8217;t the same reliance on the SL&#8217;s payment as being a primary source of income (I&#8217;d hope).</p>
<p>That said, it still raises a lot of questions regarding ethics of businesses, and how open to being exploited the residents of Second Life are.</p>
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		<title>By: Opensource Obscure</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5363</link>
		<dc:creator>Opensource Obscure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5363</guid>
		<description>In RL, I&#039;m very concerned by fairness on workplaces, work conditions, sweatshops, exploiting and such. I actively care about these issues.

However I don&#039;t see how that relates to what Prad talks about here. 

Second Life average user isn&#039;t poor and she&#039;s not looking for a work that let her and her family survive. 

SL users are not necessarily rich - but they have enough money to own a decent computer and a broadband internet connection. 
Maybe some of them just use internet cafés, but I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the average use case for SL workers.

I say that accepting a modest, low, or incredibly-low wage for a SL work is a CHOICE. 

Not the same than HAVING TO WORK in a sweatshop under unacceptable conditions because you and your family are hungry.

After all, you can enjoy SL to almost its full potential without spending a single Linden Dollar. Nobody gets forced to leave SL because he doesn&#039;t have enough Linden Dollars.


more thoughts on translators-

I&#039;m pretty sure that Peter&#039;s Babel agency provides great services. That said, remember that quality in translations HUGELY depends on many factors. 
I find appropriate that wages depend on which quality is being provided. 
As an end-user of translated works, I suggest that translating SL products descriptions or instructions may be slightly easier than other RL translations. As a products buyer, I&#039;m willing to happily accept a notecard with product instructions even if they include a few errors. Not the same with RL products. I guess this is going to change in the future.

A dear friend of mine works in RL as a translator. Because he has such high quality standards, sometimes he needs half an hour to translate just a single phrase. Sometimes he has to go to the local library to do research for his translations. Sometimes he has such short deadlines that he stays up late at night.
Is this the behaviour of the average SL translator?

(I&#039;m not English mother tongue so please deal with me. Maybe I&#039;m getting too literally what Prad wrote?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In RL, I&#8217;m very concerned by fairness on workplaces, work conditions, sweatshops, exploiting and such. I actively care about these issues.</p>
<p>However I don&#8217;t see how that relates to what Prad talks about here. </p>
<p>Second Life average user isn&#8217;t poor and she&#8217;s not looking for a work that let her and her family survive. </p>
<p>SL users are not necessarily rich &#8211; but they have enough money to own a decent computer and a broadband internet connection.<br />
Maybe some of them just use internet cafés, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the average use case for SL workers.</p>
<p>I say that accepting a modest, low, or incredibly-low wage for a SL work is a CHOICE. </p>
<p>Not the same than HAVING TO WORK in a sweatshop under unacceptable conditions because you and your family are hungry.</p>
<p>After all, you can enjoy SL to almost its full potential without spending a single Linden Dollar. Nobody gets forced to leave SL because he doesn&#8217;t have enough Linden Dollars.</p>
<p>more thoughts on translators-</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that Peter&#8217;s Babel agency provides great services. That said, remember that quality in translations HUGELY depends on many factors.<br />
I find appropriate that wages depend on which quality is being provided.<br />
As an end-user of translated works, I suggest that translating SL products descriptions or instructions may be slightly easier than other RL translations. As a products buyer, I&#8217;m willing to happily accept a notecard with product instructions even if they include a few errors. Not the same with RL products. I guess this is going to change in the future.</p>
<p>A dear friend of mine works in RL as a translator. Because he has such high quality standards, sometimes he needs half an hour to translate just a single phrase. Sometimes he has to go to the local library to do research for his translations. Sometimes he has such short deadlines that he stays up late at night.<br />
Is this the behaviour of the average SL translator?</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m not English mother tongue so please deal with me. Maybe I&#8217;m getting too literally what Prad wrote?)</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Food</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5359</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Food</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 01:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5359</guid>
		<description>I just read the first line and I knew you were going to talk about Translation. Translating the same text IRL would cost you hundreds of times more than ISL. But it&#039;s the exact same job, it takes the exact same time, same tools and the result is the same (taking in account the job is done by the same person) It&#039;s not like the difference between building a house IRL and building a house ISL.

This so called &quot;entrepreneur&quot; as you call it is actually a greedy capitalist from hell. I read his blogpost and if I could I&#039;d bitchslap this guy straight across the face. This is not being smart, this is being gross and his practice is disgusting. I wonder if this is being legal at all, who knows if some of the residents were not actually underage? This is worse than using third world kids and slaves for work.. This guy&#039;s laughing at people and making tons of money on their backs. And then he goes and proudly announce to the web how he went and abused people, how sick is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read the first line and I knew you were going to talk about Translation. Translating the same text IRL would cost you hundreds of times more than ISL. But it&#8217;s the exact same job, it takes the exact same time, same tools and the result is the same (taking in account the job is done by the same person) It&#8217;s not like the difference between building a house IRL and building a house ISL.</p>
<p>This so called &#8220;entrepreneur&#8221; as you call it is actually a greedy capitalist from hell. I read his blogpost and if I could I&#8217;d bitchslap this guy straight across the face. This is not being smart, this is being gross and his practice is disgusting. I wonder if this is being legal at all, who knows if some of the residents were not actually underage? This is worse than using third world kids and slaves for work.. This guy&#8217;s laughing at people and making tons of money on their backs. And then he goes and proudly announce to the web how he went and abused people, how sick is that?</p>
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		<title>By: Aki Shichiroji</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5357</link>
		<dc:creator>Aki Shichiroji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5357</guid>
		<description>Time = Money, no matter which Life. 

While it&#039;s true designers of consumer items spend much more time than they are paid for for each individual item sold, ultimately one would hope the rewards (however they appear to said creator) are worth the opportunity costs. 

For custom work, I think it&#039;s important for contractors to understand they are not necessarily helping the industry by constantly undercutting it.  

Being professional and efficient for the cost quoted is far more important to my clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time = Money, no matter which Life. </p>
<p>While it&#8217;s true designers of consumer items spend much more time than they are paid for for each individual item sold, ultimately one would hope the rewards (however they appear to said creator) are worth the opportunity costs. </p>
<p>For custom work, I think it&#8217;s important for contractors to understand they are not necessarily helping the industry by constantly undercutting it.  </p>
<p>Being professional and efficient for the cost quoted is far more important to my clients.</p>
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		<title>By: zigadena gabardini</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5356</link>
		<dc:creator>zigadena gabardini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5356</guid>
		<description>YOU are so Right &lt;PRAT.. and no..I think its not fair..at all</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YOU are so Right &lt;PRAT.. and no..I think its not fair..at all</p>
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		<title>By: MaggieL</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5354</link>
		<dc:creator>MaggieL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5354</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s a fallacy to conflate the price ratios between real and virtual goods with the price ration between real and virtual work. 

A virtual house, car, clothing or jewelry have nearly zero marginal cost; once created, additional copies cost almost nothing. And there&#039;s no raw materials cost. 

But information work, like translating, tech writing or programming (yes, that includes scripting) require real effort by real people over real time. 

The idea that &quot;you did it on the grid, therefore it&#039;s worth 1/277 of what it would be in real life&quot; is a misguided notion of value.   Enterprises that do not take that into account are doomed to fail, either though labor shortages or poor product quality. 

Of course, if you&#039;re actually just exploiting geographic economic disparities, then you could do that without the grid, it&#039;s just a convenient recruiting, communications and reimbursement tool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a fallacy to conflate the price ratios between real and virtual goods with the price ration between real and virtual work. </p>
<p>A virtual house, car, clothing or jewelry have nearly zero marginal cost; once created, additional copies cost almost nothing. And there&#8217;s no raw materials cost. </p>
<p>But information work, like translating, tech writing or programming (yes, that includes scripting) require real effort by real people over real time. </p>
<p>The idea that &#8220;you did it on the grid, therefore it&#8217;s worth 1/277 of what it would be in real life&#8221; is a misguided notion of value.   Enterprises that do not take that into account are doomed to fail, either though labor shortages or poor product quality. </p>
<p>Of course, if you&#8217;re actually just exploiting geographic economic disparities, then you could do that without the grid, it&#8217;s just a convenient recruiting, communications and reimbursement tool.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stindberg</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5353</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stindberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5353</guid>
		<description>This is EXACTLY the reaosn why I don&#039;t accept non-SL-jobs with my SL-translation (sic!) agency :-)

I quote from my service offerings notecard:

&quot;As an SL-only company, Babel does not accept commissions for documents to be used in &quot;real life&quot;. As such, our rates are reflective of the SL economy and general pricing of goods and services within SL.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is EXACTLY the reaosn why I don&#8217;t accept non-SL-jobs with my SL-translation (sic!) agency <img src='http://blog.pradprathivi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I quote from my service offerings notecard:</p>
<p>&#8220;As an SL-only company, Babel does not accept commissions for documents to be used in &#8220;real life&#8221;. As such, our rates are reflective of the SL economy and general pricing of goods and services within SL.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5350</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5350</guid>
		<description>Id say as being an inworld worker for a high end company being paid something for the fraction of the cost of someone else doing it may be bad however knowing the fact your work has made it to a place others have not reached is a pleasure in its self. one company paid me around £100 for a couple of prims for advertising a real life product development, i simply provided the basic outlet and script development. i must say i get your point on &quot;real companies&quot; paying tuppence for items that are complex and find that part unfair however if the community drives the creation towards a business they are passion for they will work and someone work for free (i have and i can tell you it was worth every second).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Id say as being an inworld worker for a high end company being paid something for the fraction of the cost of someone else doing it may be bad however knowing the fact your work has made it to a place others have not reached is a pleasure in its self. one company paid me around £100 for a couple of prims for advertising a real life product development, i simply provided the basic outlet and script development. i must say i get your point on &#8220;real companies&#8221; paying tuppence for items that are complex and find that part unfair however if the community drives the creation towards a business they are passion for they will work and someone work for free (i have and i can tell you it was worth every second).</p>
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		<title>By: Prad Prathivi</title>
		<link>http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/03/01/second-life-sweatshop-a-pool-of-cheap-labour/comment-page-1/#comment-5349</link>
		<dc:creator>Prad Prathivi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pradprathivi.com/?p=2141#comment-5349</guid>
		<description>But on that thinking, the final product is being used to create real profits. The translated works in the case above are amateur work (albeit from native tongues) and are paid a tuppence, but they are then sold on at the normal market rate. And the businessman scores the big profit.

Is that fair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But on that thinking, the final product is being used to create real profits. The translated works in the case above are amateur work (albeit from native tongues) and are paid a tuppence, but they are then sold on at the normal market rate. And the businessman scores the big profit.</p>
<p>Is that fair?</p>
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