I’ve raised this point before with the Lindens, but a recent comment on an entry I did reminded me of this topic.
There are all these Linden-endorsed events, activities and functions for Main Grid residents, and the SL Blog is full of them, yet we never hear anything about the Teen Grid (TG). Additionally, I work for the Linden Dept. of Public Works, doing work on the Mainland, but we never work on the TG Mainland.
I left a message with Daniel Voyager once to keep raising his voice about TG to Linden Labs and to get them to listen. I remember Blue Linden once telling me that one of the TG Residents was being signed up to a VR development company as soon as they turned 18, such was the quality of their work on TG.
Another point I made was that we never know if Teen Grid content is being ripped and sold on Main Grid, and vice-versa. The entire system is flawed again TG residents, and I can see why you wouldn’t see any appeal there, with such a floundering economy
Now a lot of SL Main Grid residents complain about underaged users, and I agree with them. If I had kids (woah.. scary thought. Note to self: Never reproduce.) then I would not want them using Second Life, because I’m aware of all the sordid crap that happens there, and how easy someone can be manipulated and corrupted at a young age.
But Linden Labs set up the Teen Grid, and then appear to have forgotten about it. I’m not even sure TSL got an SL5B celebration this year.. if they did, it certainly wasn’t promoted very well. Linden Labs are simply not taking TG seriously enough, and it’s because it doesn’t bring in the same sort of revenue as Main Grid does. All it essentially does is get children’s groups off their backs while they enable the Main Grid to have free access to anyone who wants it.
Between the ages of 14-17, I went through what is probably the most creative phase of my life so far.. I was experimenting artistically on a variety of mediums. Second Life offers to take in that ability and harness the creativity of kids while they’re still in an important phase of their life, and allow them the chance to showcase it.
Linden Labs should be taking Teen Grid seriously and giving them the chance to experience a virtual metaverse. But by charging the same rates as Main Grid, they’re making it impossible. With an active resident population that barely runs into the thousands, but still charging $1000 and then $300/month tier for a private sim, it’s no wonder that TSL is incredibly small, and the very few venues there are dying and closing.
And the thing is, nobody on Main Grid gives a damn.
Which is why the kids are coming to Main Grid.
My letter to LL is being written up now.
Landsend Korobase on September 26, 2008
I’ve thought about this issue a lot, and it seems to me the kids who log into main grid instead of TG are doing so not because they want the “sl experience” of meeting new people, building, experiencing a virtual world, in the general sense – rather they seem to want to be emersed in the adult world of sex and illicit knowledge and the great secrets of free adult-hood. I say this because I’ve spoken to a hell of a lot of underagers in my time in sl, and they boast extensively about their sexual relations with adults, and how neat it is to be treated as an adult, and a damn large number of them just seem keen on the danger of being somewhere they’re not meant to be.
There are exceptions of course, but I very strongly expect that even if TG was made “as good” as the main grid, that the same large proportion of underagers that currently use main grid still wouldn’t go to TG, and would stick with main grid, since their motivations are a bit more “suspect”.
Besides that, I’d agree with you about the observation that LL seems to have forgotten about TG and not be paying an awful lot of attention to it, and am disappointed to hear that the payments structures aren’t significantly reduced there by comparison to the main grid. Yay for letter writing, let us know how you get on
Newdoll on September 27, 2008
Really like your approach on this Prad, & would be interested to hear what response you get. All extremely valid points.
Kade Klata on September 28, 2008
amen! and I hope something happens there soon. My daughter plays there and enjoys it but is so frustrated that there’s not more to do. I’ve shown her all the wonderful builds in SL and while there are so many things in SL that I wouldn’t want her to ever see…or explore…I like to be able to show her because it’s just amazing.
I find myself wanting the teen grid to be just as amazing as SL….it’s not fair. There is so much potential there for teens.
Kade Klata on September 28, 2008
and one more thing..yes..the money shouldn’t be the same there…my kid has no job, so any lindens she has come from me. It would be nice if they could give parents a break on that if the parents have an account, too. Maybe a discount to buy lindens for your kid if you’re already paying for a full account in SL.
Just speaking as a mother.
Arwyn on September 30, 2008
To confirm: TG did get a kind of birthday celebration, but it was very subdued and controlled. We didn’t get to set up our own exhibitions, and the only celebration I knew of was an hour where M Linden came and answered questions for us.
I’ve gone to office hours, I try to get there all the time to talk to the Lindens about the issues. But we always get the same response, which I can pretty much understand: MG has more users and requires more attention, LL runs few events MG so why would they run lots for teens, their hands are tied. Some people want to protest over the whole thing.
An interesting thing to note: TG has its own underaged users, which we take very seriously to report. I’ve found kids as young as nine or ten on our grid.
Amd Karu on October 1, 2008
Totally agree. The SL5B was visited by a ridiculously low number. And I didn’t even hear about it till afterwards. They haven’t done anything for us except for throw Bay City at us a few months ago. But Bay City has only damaged the land sales economy. Its ridiculous.
I’m glad to see that even people in LL agree with us. We’ve even started up a campaign to get all this sorted out.
http://www.savingtsl.co.nr
Vaughan Vendetta on October 2, 2008
So much I could say here.
I registered on the MG, and found my way to the Sim, Narnia, where I met many of my MG friends I still keep in contact with today. I also met Adam Soler, who had his underwater shop there that I visited frequently.
Now, I, for one disagree with you, Ms. Korobase. I was not enticed at all by the seedy side of SL, and I don’t think 90% of the teens on the MG are. Almost every MG Transferee I know on the TG had some sort of business on the MG. Scripting, avatar making, clothing.
Teens want to be able to talk with responsible, mature adults, whether they admit it or not. I know I sure am sick of Tweenyville, and I’ve barely been here 5 months.
At the time, I didn’t even know there was a Teen Grid. I was there for the social experience anyways – Meeting and talking with adults, building and selling my wares. That said, almost no one knew I was underage. And the ones that did know respected me enough to not make a big deal out of it.
Since transferring in May, (Yes I was reported by a mob of “Motherly types” who found out I was underage and “Knew what was best” for me.) I’ve opened up a store on the Teen Grid… Which has pretty decrepit sales, despite being well-known.
I could rant and rave about the Teen Grid, but I’d really suggest you read articles from residents themselves. Specifically: , and
Either way, it makes me feel a little less severed from my friends on the Main Grid by your post about this, Prad. I really do appreciate it, and give Adam my regards.
And did you know that the creator of AjaxLife (Second Life in your web browser) is a Teen Grid Resident?
~V. (vaughan.vendetta@vintryx.com)
Vaughan Vendetta on October 2, 2008
Gaw, I messed up my HTMLs.
The correct URLs are:
http://vintryx.com/opinions/29-teen-second-life-is-boring
And
http://vintryx.com/opinions/28-lindens-not-so-keen-on-the-teen-grid
~V.
TSL Age-Verification links « Daniel Voyager’s Blog on November 16, 2008
[...] http://www.pradprathivi.com/pradprathivi/musings/second-life/the-forgotten-grid [...]
Sharifa Morenz on November 24, 2008
It really is true we really don’t get much on TG and it’s really sad. No Lindens really pay attention to us except Blue Linden. We mabye have about 5 events a week and those are usually something educational sims are sponsoring. Then there’s so many copybotted items floating around and so little money in the TG that they figure why not wear them they’re free. And it really sucks because alot of us work really hard, to make things that we really don’t get enough credit for!But thanks for this post ^_^ I enjoyed it.
Jacob Bandler on November 25, 2008
You can see what the TG actually looks like, so that i can try to dispel some of the ideas that it looks like a sandbox.
http://flickr.com/photos/jbandler/
The photos labeled “Teen Grid Showcase” are pictures of what just a small portion of the content and environment looks like.
Also, most content creators do not rip products from the Main Grid, and those who do, usually go out of business or never become popular. And if they do, our “Teens Against Content Theft” group takes pretty effective protesting and boycotting action against the creator.
It really is great to see that some people care about us
Also, to paint a picture of the economic condition on the Teen Grid, here are some item prices:
High-End Skin: ~L$700 MOST EXPENSIVE ON THE GRID
High-End feature filled multi gadget w/HUD: ~L$1000
High-End feature filled multi gadget II: L$100
3 High-End Hairs: ~L$60-70
High-End fully sculpted shoes: ~L$120
High-End Dress: ~L$120
High-End Sculpted Flats: L$
Mid-Quality Flats: L$20
Also, products on the Teen Grid are on average the same quality as on the main grid. Unbelievable? No. Teens are poor, they don’t want to spend the money they have on crap items, so only the best succeed, and all the rest fail, the middle ground is insignificantly small. Prime example: of Teen Grid Quality and innovation: Dernier Cri, by Asuka Martin
Asuka Martin on November 30, 2008
I know this article is getting a little old, but this whole issue with the teen grid has meant a lot to me. I played on the teen grid for a little over two years, and I transferred over to the main grid about nine months ago (what a difference!). I agree with Vaughan about the “decrepit” sales. I could close down my shop down 20 days of the month and still be making more than I was on tsl.
It seems that most adults don’t see teens as valuable community and content contributing residents either. I remember reading various posts/comments about teens. We were usually referred to as “pimply little brats”, “content thieves”, or “more blingtards to muck up the scenery.”.. Or people like Landsend would get mixed up and think that we all want to discover “the great secrets of free adult-hood”… Not.
TSL was (and still is) incredibly unattractive to teen players.
For me, being on TSL was like being starved to death inside of a glass cage in a world full of strawberry cheesecake, roast beef, and buttered rolls… A lot of teens get fed up with TSL and are attracted to the allure of the main grid. If the teen grid was as equally attractive, the large majority of teens would not be playing on adult SL.
Asuka Martin on November 30, 2008
/me notices the end of Jacob’s post. awwwh <3!
Merging the Teen Grid with SL - Update 1 « Daniel Voyager’s Blog on January 20, 2009
[...] The Forgotten Grid [...]
moo Money on February 7, 2009
I know I’m late to the party here, but I outlined many of these things on Second Life Insider and Massively when I wrote for them. Barry Joseph approached me at a Machinima Festival in New York and asked me to come onto the Teen Grid to teach them. It took a few months for the background check and everything to be sorted out. I ended up over there on March 31st, 2007 I believe.
What I found on the Teen Grid were a bunch of lonely kids that literally worshipped the Lindens and crowded around adults all excited. They need people to look up to instead of those that will use them as an educational experiment. Most of the islands over there that do anything exciting involve projects where the kids are barely paid anything to participate.
In the days of the big development companies where people made thousands of dollars building a MG sim, talented TG residents found themselves building for pennies on the dollar. It’s truly sweatshop work. One of the most heartbreaking stories I heard was of a teen who noticed that someone was spending a lot of money at his store. When he went to say hi, he discovered they were transferring to MG and wanted to turn a profit on cheap TG stuff.
Then there are the TGers on MG. After my first day, a teen approached me on MG, told me his TG name, and his age, which was 14. I asked Spike Linden what I should do because I didn’t want to endanger my TG status. He told me to AR them. That kid is still in search to this day.
Nowadays, I know probably over half a dozen TG residents that are on MG. Since ARing them clearly does nothing, I just recommend safe places that they can go. It’s not the way I want it to go, but I can’t stop them from logging in.
The thing is, all of these teens are turning 18. The day I got onto TG was Kit Axon’s 18th birthday. Several hours later, I friended her on MG too. She was ripped from her best friend, who won’t be 18 until this August. Kit was the most social, and arguably one of the most popular, residents on the Teen Grid. She’s barely made a peep since then.
In addition to Kit, there have been Asuka Martin, who took one of the most popular TG stores and turned it into a thriving business on MG. She is one of the lone success stories of transitioning. Then there are Mercury Metropolitan, a staple of Global Kids island, exiled MG to TG to MG resident and scripting genius Ryan Dayton, and Daniel Voyager, one of the lead teens at Eye4You Alliance.
The other starting teens, such as Lucky Figtree and Brooke Barmy will be 18 by Summer. Isn’t it time that we either merged the grid to include safe areas or just shut it down? I don’t know what the peak concurrency is today, considering MG has grown, but I heard it’s pretty much dead these days. Do you know what peak concurrency was when I was there? It was about 200 during the school year and 500 in Summer.
How is that fair to the teens to rip them from their friends, not let those teens come back, and expect them to not create MG accounts? How is it fair to not dangle a huge grid full of money and creativity in front of them and not expect them to create MG accounts? How is it fair to discuss merging the grids for years and not expect them to create MG accounts to check it out?
Copybot and the Teen Grid - Metaversally Speaking.. on September 30, 2009
[...] been through all this before when I wrote about The Forgotten Grid, but on catching up with Arwyn and Vaughan, I’ve learnt that things have only got [...]